tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullier

Jenna Harris May 16, 2020 13 No Comments

tomato success, from transplant to harvest, with craig lehoullier

EVERY GARDENER has his or her personal tomato secrets and techniques, suggestions, and methods they’re certain will carry earliest fruit or the largest harvest. Some of us swear by staking others by caging, some let their crops sprawl after which there’s to feed or to not feed and what about stopping tomato troubles love blossom finish rot or hornworm injury or yellowing leaves.

And final week I wrote a tomato growing story as a part of a backyard collection I’ve been doing in “The New York Times,” and this week I needed to proceed that tomato theme and speak about them with Mr. Tomato himself, Craig LeHoullier, a.k.a. NC Tomato Man and creator of the traditional e book, “Epic Tomatoes (affiliate hyperlink). Comment within the field on the backside of the web page to enter to win a duplicate.

Craig has gardened and grown tomatoes in areas of the U.S. as completely different as New England and Seattle, Pennsylvania and Raleigh, North Carolina, and recently within the mountains of Western North Carolina, too. He’s one of many founders of the Dwarf Tomato Project that we’ve talked about on the flash earlier than, and usually simply an all tomato on a regular basis form of man. (That’s Craig beneath amongst among the straw bales he enjoys planting in.)

Read alongside as you hearken to the May 18, 2020 version of my public-radio flash and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You can subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts here).

1589694834 230 tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoulliertomatoes from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullier



Margaret Roach: I’m so completely happy you’re right here to speak about you-know what. How are you?

Craig LeHoullier: You’re completely happy? Imagine my pleasure in getting an opportunity to do that with you Margaret. Thank you a lot and I hope you’re effectively. It’s all lovely in Hendersonville right this moment. How is it there?

Margaret: We’re turning the nook. It’s now not winter as of yesterday. [Laughter.] Oh my goodness, my goodness. Mid-May and we’re perhaps out of winter.

1589694835 2 tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullierCraig: I simply completed watering and I seen that there was a coleus we had planted that I forgot that I had planted and it actually didn’t recognize getting all the way down to about 33 levels. So it’s within the hospital [above], which is my storage, seeing if it’ll reside.

Margaret: I’ve a hospital, too. [Laughter.] So earlier than we start, I needed to say, effectively let’s have a e book giveaway of the “Epic Tomatoes” e book, which is so great. People can enter to win it. So we’ll do this for a tiny further tomato enjoyable, as a result of anybody who doesn’t have it, it’s such a very good learn and it’s so useful for all issues.

So you’ve just lately moved to a complete new zone, from what zone to what zone? How does that work in North Carolina?

Craig: Well Raleigh, after we moved in 28 years in the past, it was positively within the the 7s and we’d common perhaps 5 to 10 days of 90 or above within the summertime. And 28 years later, it’s a Zone Eight and we had 70 days of 90 or above final yr together with a minimum of a half a dozen warmth waves, 4 days in a row at 90 to 95 or extra. So we at the moment are in a 7a and we’ll have perhaps 5 – 6 days at 90 and above. So I’m so completely happy that we’re going to be cooler.

Margaret: And you’re additionally, love lots of people this yr although, you’re form of exploring new territory. Literally you might be. But I imply lots of people there’s been this huge… I imply I used to be speaking once more for that story within the Times. I talked to Tom Stearns of High Mowing Organic Seeds and he was saying they’d a 300 % improve in home-gardener gross sales this yr. And some weeks they have been up as a lot as 5 instances regular week-to-week. And so many new individuals, gardening, backyard facilities are having bumper enterprise even with the restrictions and so forth on purchasing.

So you’re a tiny little bit of a brand new gardener, too, since you’re in a brand new place.

Craig: No, you’re completely proper. And the proper timing of our transfer at a time the place there have been some actually actual challenges and difficulties with COVID. However, I get to undergo and share an expertise of what it’s love to backyard in a brand new zone, and a brand new space, when confronted with new house and new choices to make.

So all of us, you and I are each and there was many people educators and backyard coaches and people who find themselves attempting to encourage new gardeners to remain gardeners eternally. So I’m hoping that chance permits me to share what I’m doing, each the issues that succeed and the issues that go fallacious. I’ll be very open about all of it. And then be taught what I can about gardening in Hendersonville in my explicit yard this yr, and we’ll make some changes subsequent yr. So I’m, I’ve been gardening 40 years and to have the ability to nonetheless be as enthusiastic about gardening 40 years right into a interest is simply to me—it makes it a really distinctive interest, don’t you assume?

tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullierMargaret: Oh yeah, and we’ll additionally give individuals the heads up that you just’ve been doing these actually enjoyable, which I’ve been coming to, Instagram Lives on Fridays and generally at different instances, Friday afternoons. And you’re @NCTomatoMan on Instagram. [Above, Craig’s Ask Me Anything invite from Instagram.] And individuals can ask you questions and also you flash us the way you’re doing issues and what stage the crops are at and I imply they’ll simply chime in and say, “What do I do about this? How do I stake that?”

So let’s speak about among the issues. I imply I believe in Raleigh, you grew in straw bales and in develop luggage that have been set on the floor of your very well-known driveway [laughter], your driveway backyard [below].

1589694835 430 tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullierCraig: The driveway of all driveways, proper?

Margaret: Yes, and the place are you rising your tomatoes and different issues now? Are you rising in luggage and bales or are you rising within the floor? What are you doing now?

Craig: So we have now a few quarter of an acre of yard that’s fairly sunny, however we have now our septic subject again there. So one of many issues I didn’t rush into is getting a shovel and digging up the soil. I’ve discovered loads about container gardening and straw bale gardening, however we’ll focus totally on container gardening.

I gardened for years and years and years in a conventional backyard and so that you by no means actually neglect about that have, but it surely’s a piece in progress as a result of I’ve bought, let’s see, 29 crops planted, however one other 70 or 80 that must get in there. And they may most likely go into 10-gallon containers, develop luggage, perhaps some 5-gallon containers. So you’re catching me the place it’s a piece in progress, and I’m figuring it out day-to-day as I’m going alongside.

Margaret: What’s the worst factor you ever did to a tomato? [Laughter.] What was the worst flop?

Craig: You know even, perhaps the worst factor that I ever did to a tomato and it nonetheless rewarded me is we do seedling gross sales within the spring. And all gardeners have pots of issues that both don’t promote, don’t get given away, get forgotten and so they simply sit there. So I had some ‘Sun Gold’ tomatoes that have been a minimum of two months previous gross sales time. They have been a foot and a half tall of only a stem with perhaps a couple of leaves coming off it, and even they didn’t look superb.

So I’d discover these and I’m pondering, “Oh, I’ve got space for another ‘Sun Gold,’” and I’d simply bury it’s as deep as I can and it leafs out and it produces scrumptious ‘Sun Gold.’

So I suppose the ethical of the story is, tomatoes are powerful. Gardeners I believe typically, particularly new gardeners actually don’t wish to make errors and we are inclined to perhaps over-care for and child our crops and I’ve discovered via the years that tomatoes actually do reply effectively to some powerful love alongside the way in which. There’s only a few issues that really will kill them and make them disappear. Some of these issues have enamel [laughter].

But yeah, they’re very forgiving, and we’ll most likely discuss via some suggestions on this chat we have now about what do you do? What are the issues to do to assist construct in high quality from the entrance? And what are the belongings you do over the course of a season to push back actually unhappy tales and simply put a smile in your face on the finish of the season since you’ve succeeded. You’ve bought what you need. You’ve bought scrumptious tomatoes on the desk, in jars, within the freezer, you realize?

Margaret: So you simply talked about that stretched-out, spindly, overgrown, overdue transplant of the ‘Sun Gold,’ and the way you caught it in a extremely deep gap. So up North we haven’t planted as a result of it’s been snowing and stuff. And even in a whole lot of different locations, individuals fairly a bit to the South, midway between you and me or extra, individuals have had some frosts just lately. It’s been actually nutty. So to not fear when you haven’t planted but of us, I’ve a pal who even right here up North one yr, he was so busy with work assignments he didn’t plant his tomatoes till July 4th weekend, and he had the very best crop we ever had.

But one of many issues with an overgrown planner or spindly plant love you mentioned, is plant it actually deep as a result of they’ll make these adventitious roots off the stem, proper? They are a plant that may do this. So they’ll actually root in super-deep. You’re not suffocating it, proper?

Craig: Absolutely. And I truly additionally plant eggplant and peppers deeply. I’m, as a couple of mates have referred to as me, I are usually a little bit of a rule-breaker. And sure I learn books, I learn blogs, however then I form of put my pondering cap on and I believe, “Why can’t I try this?” and it’s helped me to develop some new variations on strategies via the yr, and succeed most of the time.

1589694835 303 tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullierMargaret: So we’re going to plant deep. I plant even a traditional 6-inch form of a seedling, stout little seedling that’s perhaps six weeks or so rising, that I’d’ve grown myself, I plant them deep. Do you are taking off the decrease leaves? Do you create a splash barrier to stop fungal spores from the soil from getting up onto that plant? What’s your form of… how do I put it within the floor and what am I enthusiastic about once I’m transplanting?

Craig: So nice query, and it’s a extremely great factor for rookies to contemplate as effectively, as a result of it’s possible you’ll be taking a look at a backyard space that’s been gardened a very long time. You could also be taking a look at one thing that you just’re simply digging for the primary time your self. You might have a container.

I believe it’s actually good proper from the begin to perceive what sort of soil you’ve bought. So does it drain? If you dig a gap and it rains, is that rain nonetheless there the following day? Or do you dig a gap and it rains and the water is gone in 5 seconds? That tells you when you’re too sandy. It drains too rapidly, you’re not retaining water so these roots are all the time going to be looking out, or when you’ve simply bought a lot of a barrier to drainage that your roots are actually going to drown. The plant goes to look love it’s dry as a result of it’s wilting, but it surely’s truly drowning as a result of it’s not getting oxygen.

So working natural matter into your soil and perhaps sending a pattern off to an extension service simply to get an thought in case your three primary vitamins, NPK, nitrogen phosphorus potassium, are in good steadiness.

At that time on, you simply dig a pleasant deep gap love you mentioned. Bury as a lot of the stem as you’ll be able to or when you can’t dig deep, you’ll be able to dig diagonal and form of bend the plant in, bury that stem. Because of phototropism, the plant will develop upright. It might stick out of the bottom and bent, however it’ll go proper up in direction of the solar, gained’t it?

Margaret: It’s nearly love a trench and the two-thirds of the stem is beneath—the basis ball is at one finish, say on the left, after which many of the stems within the trench and then you definately form of bend the higher half and the higher couple units of leaves up. And then you definately fill in that trench and your tomato will, and once more you say it’ll develop up vertically, not sideways along-

Craig: I’ve had points with my backyard in Raleigh the place some areas didn’t drain effectively in any respect, and I truly introduced soil on both facet of the row that I needed to plant. It was a few foot tall, and I planted the tomatoes deeply in that prime a part of the soil that I moved in. That meant the roots weren’t getting close to the zone the place the water was gathering, and the crops did completely nice after which any of the surplus drained out the facet.

Now you talked about one thing critically essential. Eventually, it could be proper from the beginning, however actually ultimately, backyard soil will choose up all types of illness spores. Many are fungal in nature, some are bacterial, some are viral. So I truly do mulch a plant proper from the beginning. Once it’s planted proper across the stem finish, I’d truly put a cutworm collar on the plant since you don’t need the tiny cutworm to sidle as much as your plant and circle it after which chew the plant off on the soil line.

So simply the lid of a paper cup or the highest of a paper cup, a few inches out from the stem, simply to encircle your stem—to stop the cutworm attending to it. But then mulch it and use… I love to make use of a water- and air-soluble mulch that may enable water to soak up via comparable to untreated grass clippings, shredded leaves, shredded bark. You might use panorama material or plastic so long as slits are minimize in and you’ve got an space for the water to achieve.

That will enable you to; that’s a kind of issues about constructing high quality finish within the entrance, so these spores aren’t splashing up on the leaves and inside a couple of weeks you’re beginning to see the consequences of early blight or septoria already hitting your decrease leaves. Mulching will forestall that.

Margaret: And so individuals know in a whole lot of areas of the nation, the Northeast, elements of the Midwest, and many others., these illnesses reside within the soil. These reside organisms. They reside within the soil neighborhood. So you’ll be able to’t eliminate a few of these illnesses that you just simply talked about. Some of them are current in your surroundings, so it’s a must to handle round them, forestall them, do your finest, proper? And so this barrier-

Craig: And the excellent news is, issues love early blight or septoria actually don’t kill a plant so long as—and that is a part of your during-season upkeep that we’ll speak about in a second—however don’t let these spores infect a lot of your foliage that the foliage itself then management the spores. On a relaxed evening they’re simply going to drift round your backyard and keep on with the foliage of your neighboring plant.

So it’s humorous, I’ve form of a psychological guidelines every day of what I do within the backyard and I’m truly going to speak about it tomorrow on my Instagram Live. I’m going to flash an image of my guidelines and take individuals via it, however the very first thing I’ve is “walk the garden.”

Look on the crops, familiarize your self with them. What do they give the impression of being love once they’re completely happy? What do they give the impression of being love once they want one thing? And then you’ll be able to react to it instantly and to me, it makes gardening extra than simply one thing you do for an hour per week. It’s that fulfilling journey that you just’re on that lasts you the entire season, and also you get to know your crops. And I believe extra incessantly noticed and understood and cared for crops do do higher in the long term by the top of the season.

Margaret: So we’ve put our child in a deep gap, mendacity down or straight up. We’ve put a barrier relying on the place we reside. A whole lot of us Northerners love to make use of these black supplies [to heat the soil], which by the way in which I do know individuals don’t wish to use plastic and I completely perceive that. I’ve plastic that I’ve used as a result of I bought the actually, actually thick stuff, these sheets that match over one in every of my beds. And I’ve used it for 10 years and panorama material the identical factor, is don’t throw it away. You roll it up and use it subsequent yr, proper?

Craig: Yes, sure.

Margaret: So we’re not encouraging being wasteful of fossil-fuel merchandise.

Craig: No, I’m nonetheless utilizing the plastic 10-gallon pots that I’ve had for 28 years.

Margaret: Yes.

1589694835 178 tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullierCraig: They’re nice. They final actually eternally, and a whole lot of instances I’ve discovered them rolling round on freeway medians. Shrubs are available them, so that you simply go and acquire them and also you’re cleansing up the surroundings and also you’re bringing house and also you’re placing crops in them and it’s all good.

One factor I most likely ought to have talked about is you’re going to be taught one thing about your soil and you’ll amend it and it’s fascinating that if it drains too quick or if it drains too sluggish, the reply appears to all the time be natural supplies. Leaf mould, worm castings, or kitchen scraps that you just’ve composted.

Margaret: Compost.

Craig: Anything that helps the construction that soil naturally builds within the dietary components and helps the drainage, helps both to retain moisture properly or drain effectively. You can’t go fallacious with working natural matter into your planting gap on your tomato plant.

Margaret: So we have now the child within the floor, and do you stake, cage, trellis or nothing [laughter]—what are you doing? And I do know once more, perhaps give us the rules for both in large containers or within the floor, not for the straw bales a lot, as a result of that has its personal structure, proper?

Craig: Right, proper, proper, yeah. So we’ve bought the plant within the floor. You must water it in as a result of usually you’ve bought a plant that it could not have been hardened off as effectively, notably when you get it from somebody that you just haven’t grown it your self and also you don’t know the hardening-off course of. Water it in.

I don’t feed my crops for a few weeks. So they’ve every part they want simply via their very own photosynthesis within the solar and within the water that you just give it and what’s within the floor. So I don’t feed instantly. The technique of what I exploit to help my plant positively is dependent upon the kind of plant it’s, which means for 3 basic kinds of tomatoes: Indeterminate—so those, the unruly stepchildren, they develop up, they develop out, they sucker, they drive individuals loopy. They’re additionally 95 % of the tomatoes we all know of and so they are also the ‘Cherokee Purple’ and the ‘Sun Gold’ and the ‘Brandywine’ and those that make you drool when you concentrate on them. So there’s a technique for indeterminate varieties.

The dwarfs and determinates. And whenever you assume determinate assume ‘Roma,’ one thing that grows about three or four toes tall. It’s a tomato manufacturing facility for about two weeks, after which you’ll be able to say goodbye to it.

Dwarfs behave love indeterminates, solely they develop half of the speed. So when you bought an 8-foot-tall ‘Cherokee Purple’ on the finish of the yr, your dwarf shall be a pleasant, tidy four toes.

Determinates and dwarfs shouldn’t be pruned, and so they truly are excellent candidates for what I love to name the ineffective tomato cage. [Laughter.] The steel cones that people who find themselves simply beginning off will purchase them, put them over their tomato. It’s an indeterminate tomato. Within two weeks, it’s nonetheless June and so they surprise what’s going to occur for the remainder of the yr because the tomato is simply pouring out the highest of this factor. Determinates and dwarfs will keep proper in there.

I’m a staker. The purpose is down South, we have now so many illnesses and critters down low that if I have been to permit my crops to sprawl, hungry critters would come take bites, slugs would get to them, illnesses would hit that foliage. You can let crops sprawl when you put a pleasant thick layer of some form of a mulch,, love a straw down and when you’ve bought the room to allow them to do it as a result of an indeterminate will take up what? Five sq. toes or extra. I imply it’ll simply, will probably be huge.

Margaret: So for love the opposite factor that you just and I don’t do is trellising, and I’m going to refer individuals over from the transcript and so they can see the trellising from this story that I did with Tom Stearns at High Mowing. But the staking, do you then prune? Because I wish to get onto among the subsequent steps, do you prune? You tie it up each foot or what’s the, what occurs?

1589694836 481 tomato success from transplant to harvest with craig lehoullier - tomato success, from transplant to reap, with craig lehoullierCraig: So I’ll use the 8-foot steel core plastic coated stakes that you possibly can purchase on the large field shops, hammer it in close to the bottom of the plant. The distinction in pruning technique is that there’s an excellent. I’d love to assume that I’m actually disciplined at pruning and at topping, and the fact—which is gardeners have a troublesome time eradicating dwelling tissue that’s rising effectively in wanting completely happy.

So let’s do Ideal Craig: He would most likely let two or three suckers develop. So let’s say by 2 or three toes off the bottom your tomato plant has 4 primary stems, and then you definately’re suckering all 4 of these stems as they develop upward. And then I tie that, make a topiary out of it. I exploit particular twine and I make a tie about each foot or so, and so the plant shall be about perhaps a foot and a half huge.

This lets you plant your indeterminates, perhaps inside 2 toes aside, and for me who’s an actual selection nerd, I wish to develop as many alternative issues every yr. So I are inclined to plant my crops a tiny nearer than is really helpful, however what I exploit is leaf elimination, foliage elimination, pruning, tying, to maintain the crops a tiny bit separate from one another as they develop up. And it’s exhausting to try this.

And then in the event that they get, as soon as they get to the highest of that 8-foot stake, Ideal Craig would say, “This is enough. If I let these grow further, they’re going to get too heavy. The fruit that’s going to form on that extra that’s hanging over may not ripen anyway, so I’m just going to remove it.” And I normally don’t do it, as a result of I hate to take away dwelling tissue on the finish of the yr. So I’m going to be higher. My New Year’s decision as a gardener goes to be, “I’m going to top my plants when they get to the top of my stake.”

Margaret: So that we don’t run out of time, I wish to simply form of race forward to the… So we’re tying this up. When you say take out the suckers. Between a primary stem and the facet branches, generally there’s within the crotch there, there’s a 3rd tiny piece that occurs and that’s a sucker, proper?

Craig: Yep. You’ve bought up and down and then you definately’ve bought roughly 90 levels the place the leaf comes up, and at 45 levels out comes the sucker, and each joint between the leaves and the principle stem. So you actually should be on prime of it.

Margaret: And so then you definately mentioned earlier, so right here we have now the plant within the floor, we’re supporting it alongside the way in which and we’ve planted it deep. You mentioned earlier actual fast about the way you don’t feed instantly. You do feed in some unspecified time in the future down the highway?

Craig: Yep, at about two weeks in I’ll begin utilizing a fertilizer of alternative—and that is the place what individuals use to feed their crops with, they’ll must let that match into their very own private gardening philosophy, the 2 main classes being typical and natural. So I’m not but strictly natural. I’m form of slowly shifting in that route, however I’ll use an all-purpose 10-10-10 granular and sprinkle that across the base of the plant, perhaps about 6 inches from the stem, however in a hoop and work that in. And I’ll do that each two or three weeks.

If I’m in a container, generally I’ll simply use one of many water soluble, all-purpose, combine it up a tablespoon per gallon. And I’ll give every of my crops a cup and a half or so every week. Now the rationale between frequent feeding and watering in a container is the roots of the container are restricted in what they’ll get to. The vitamins within the water are throughout the bounds of that container in contrast to garden-grown crops that they’ll attain down and deep and get their roots some water.

Margaret: They can go love 4 toes away from the plant, proper?


Craig: Yes. So I do day by day watering of my containers. Don’t neglect, we’re fairly sexy down right here, however I let the crops inform me.

Blossom finish rot, the entry-level technique into blossom finish rot [above] is withholding water out of your tomato crops and stressing them out within the warmth of the summer time to the purpose the place they begin visibly wilting in the midst of the afternoon once they’re growing tiny little fruits. Now the plant is doing a lot work. It needs meals. It needs water. You take a couple of days and go on a visit and also you neglect to inform your neighbors to water. The plant wilts. It doesn’t die, however that stress induces a calcium-transport situation, and that may result in the beginnings of blossom finish rot.

You’ll come house, you’ll water the plant, the plant recovers, you’re love “Good, I’ve saved the plant. Uh-oh, my tomatoes have blossom end rot on them.”

So drip irrigation, common watering, and making it a set factor of strolling via the backyard. My crops completely happy. It’s by no means actually wilting. You won’t ever see an incidence of blossom finish rot. As lengthy as you’re in good-quality soil the place all the micronutrients are balanced and there’s adequate calcium for the plant to make use of, except you stress it. And when you stress it, the plant will inform you that.

tobacco hornworm on nicotianaMargaret: Well guess what? We’ve used up all our time and I haven’t even requested you you probably have any hornworms? [Laughter.] [Above, at Margaret’s a tobacco hornworn; the cousin of the tomato hornworm’s enjoys tomatoes, too, not simply Nicotiana.]

Craig: My gosh.

Margaret: I do know it’s horrible, however as I mentioned, we have now two actually nice conversations that we’ve had earlier than that we’ll embody with the transcript, which have been about a few of your different tomato adventures, plus this “New York Times” piece that I simply did from the absolutely natural perspective, but additionally with another concepts. So there’ll be tons and plenty of tomato information and plus, Instagram Live on Fridays. We can ship individuals over to @NCTomatoMan. Thank you, Craig. I’ll discuss to you quickly, O.Okay.?

Craig: This was completely great. One quickie: Whoever will get the e book, in the event that they e mail me I shall be completely happy to signal a plate that they’ll stick into that e book after which I can mail that to them with a couple of packets of seeds which are actually particular, and that may make it a tiny little bit of a, perhaps a particular factor for whoever wins the e book.

Margaret: Thank you. Thank you, thanks. All proper, I’ll discuss to you quickly.

earlier chats with craig

how you can win ‘epic tomatoes’


TO ENTER TO WIN a signed copy of “Epic Tomatoes,” Craig LeHoullier’s e book, merely remark beneath within the field on the very backside of the web page, answering the query:

What’s your tomato secret, and do you stake, cage, trellis–or allow them to lie?

No reply to the query, or just feeling shy? No fear; simply say “count me in” or one thing to that impact, and I’ll, however a reply is even higher. Winners shall be drawn at random after entries shut at midnight on Tuesday, May 27, 2020. Good luck to all.

desire the podcast model of the flash?

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MY WEEKLY public-radio flash, rated a “top-5 garden podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its 11th yr in March 2020. In 2016, the flash gained three silver medals for excellence from the Garden Writers Association. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Listen domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Eastern, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the May 18, 2020 flash utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify or Stitcher (and browse my archive of podcasts here).

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